Discussions About the Manga Series "Utahime Five"

Topics on the DOD manga "Utahime Five" (ウタヒメファイブ).
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Rekka Alexiel
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Discussions About the Manga Series "Utahime Five"

Postby Rekka Alexiel » Mon May 05, 2014 7:36 am

This is the forum where you can talk about the manga series "Utahime Five" published in the monthly manga magazine Big GanGan.

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Aicard
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Re: Discussions About the Manga Series "Utahime Five"

Postby Aicard » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:24 pm

Hi

Thanks (again) and congratulations for finishing the translation of Utahime Five !

Regarding the last chapter here's some questions and remarks, please read the manga before going on, and beware of spoilers on the Dod series

[+] Click to show.
I have to say that i no longer understand a thing about the whole pact system...

To cancel the angelization process of gabriella, One merge her soul with gabriella forming a pact. Questions , how come we consider that zero create the very first pact magic in Branch B and E while One already did that in the manga which timeline should be common to every branch ? Beside the merging of the souls is said to be the most sever forbidden art of old, this should imply that the pact magic already existed, and the pact zero make in Branch B and E is not the first.

i see several possibilities :
-the pact that One use is in some way different from the pact Zero create in Branch B and E, even if i don't have a single clue on what could be that difference, except the process which is a bit different...
-Branch E, which is the only one where it is clearly stated that one Create the very first pact is not set in the Utahime five manga timeline. A bit too easy... and aburd
-Another explanation i can't grasp...

Remarks
- Fun to notice that zero could kill One just by killing Gabriel (as they merged souls), but we know, thanks to Dod1 Endinc C, that pact can be broken in very special circumstances so perhaps that happened for the pact between those two, in any case there is no ending where we see One or Gabriel outlive the other, in Ending A gabriel disappear before One die but it's certainly because One power ran dry and could no longer maintain the summoning of gabriel.
EDIT : Gabriel died in ending C before One without any effect on her whatsoever, so no the mergeing of theirs souls probably can't lead to mutual death, for some reasons...
- Fun to notice that the character who was teasingly supposed to be Verdelet when the first Dod3 trailer came out was in fact Partition, i wonder if there is some connection to find in this.
- Both for Zero and for One, the pact Price is to turn back to Childhood, i wonder if this is because they are intoners and as a superior being they can form pact with such a smaller price ?


Regarding the Angelization of gabriella, i already made some point on another topic so i'll be short (i'll edit the questions if someone respond to one of this topic so that it don't have to be answered twice)

-How come Gabriella can resume Her angelization while it was aborted by One and Gabriella already used her one and only Final wish, as i speculated it might be that the second angelization is merely the continuation of the first, which couldn't be fully stopped by One.
- And how One can control Gabriel later, while she can't in utahime five, either the second angelization is different in some way, or One mastered enough of her power to control Gabriel by the time of the second angelization i guess...
Last edited by Aicard on Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Discussions About the Manga Series "Utahime Five"

Postby Terramax » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:19 pm

Whilst I can't reply to the above questions (although I will say that too was wondering about the possible flaws in the pact between One and Gabriella), I wanted to express my overall impression of the manga series. I also want to emphasis I've not played this game for a long while now, and I've kinda forgotten a number of the more intricite plot points, so forgive me if some of my questions have rather obvious answers.


[+] Click to show.
Overall thought in a nutshell: A little bit of a letdown.

I feel like it ended really abruptly. I knew it wasn't going to last long, but I was expecting the travels of the 5 sisters to be a little longer and more grandiose than it ended up being.

Marking Partition the narrator of beginning of DOD3 seemed tacked on, most of the antagonists seemed under-developed, and the entire final battle all seemed a little too clusterf**k for my liking. I will admit to not always knowing what the heck was going on (not due to the Rekka’s translations, but the rather the messy illustrations). We don't really learn anything about the sisters either. They're basically playing out their stereotypes for the most part, with maybe the exception of Two, if only because she hasn't met Cent yet. The only one we really get to know any more about is One, and even then there's very little about her personality that we didn't know already, and Gabriella, although even she is basically driven to helping One for reasons not really explained for any other reason than curiosity and a friendship bond which doesn't come off as particularly natural.

Still, the story has its moments. It's pretty dark and grizzly, like the best of the Berserk manga (which I was heavily reminded of ain parts). But, really, the manga serves merely to set the stage for DOD3, and answer unresolved plot points, if only because they didn't have the means to do so in the game itself, and they didn't take the opportunity to flesh out any of the characters.

Perhaps some questions, like that from Aicard, are intended to be obscure for planned future instalments in the series, or future franchisement, but really the manga doesn't do the best job of tying up loose ends. Now, I'm aware Taro probably doesn’t want the entire story neatly wrapped up, preferring the David Lynch approach, but I didn't get much of a pay-off for sticking things out to the end, and it feels like too much still remains unanswered.

One question that I do have to ask is; why didn't Gabriella instinctively want to kill One? I thought it was a dragon's natural instinct to destroy the intoners? It's acknowledged that, when Gabriella came across Zero, she sensed a great violence within her, and sensed something similar with One, but appears as far as things go.

Perhaps this might have something to do with the revelation as to the Dragon's key to the destruction of the intoners, an important plot point, being revealed when they wanted it to be covered up until the reader has played to the end of the actual game, but I feel they still ought to have found a subtle way of acknowledging this rather important plot point i.e. Gabriella reflecting on One, and feeling a strange urge to want to do something terrible for her, for reasons which she may not grasp.

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Re: Discussions About the Manga Series "Utahime Five"

Postby Aicard » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:19 pm

Replying to Terramax
[+] Click to show.
One question that I do have to ask is; why didn't Gabriella instinctively want to kill One? I thought it was a dragon's natural instinct to destroy the intoners? It's acknowledged that, when Gabriella came across Zero, she sensed a great violence within her, and sensed something similar with One, but appears as far as things go.


I don't fully remember that events in utahime five, but as fas as the dragons instinct instinct is concerned, we know that dragon do not instinctively attack every intonner. To trigger such instinct the flower in the intoner need to reach a certain level of power or influence, that is why Mihail don't instinctively eat every intoner he cross. Thefore you may think that in this encouter One's Flower had not reached the required level of influence, while Zero did.
You Could say that by that time Michael was already friend with zero and yet don't eat her, that is probably beacause dragons can as any intelligent being resist their instincts, perhaps... at least that's how i see it, but i might forget a piece of the picture

Concerning the manga overall, you can also adopt the proposition of rekka
My feeling is that the ending was a rush job, mostly due to IsII’s illness and delayed chapters. They might have needed to finish it by a certain date no matter


Nonetheless i personnaly try to avoid disregarding too easily a side works just because it's implications don't fit with the main piece or because it seem to be an half-assed work, as long as it's not officialy stated to be non canonical.
So any other thought ?

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Re: Discussions About the Manga Series "Utahime Five"

Postby Riskbreaker » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:33 pm

I have two questions about this series that are really bugging me :S

[+] Click to show.
- If Gabriella and One have their souls merged, why doesn't One die after you killed Gabriel in branch C? :?
- If Grabiella returns to her true self at the ending of the manga... Does that mean she becomes a monster again later?


Too much inference in this saga IMO.
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Re: Discussions About the Manga Series "Utahime Five"

Postby Aicard » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:06 pm

Replying to Riskbreaker


[+] Click to show.
- If Gabriella and One have their souls merged, why doesn't One die after you killed Gabriel in branch C?


Darn ! i completely forgot that Gabriel died before One in that branch, thanks. Well as i said we know thanks to Dod1 ending C that in some circonstances pact can be broken, so there's three possibility left i guess
Either the pact between One and Gabriel were broken sometime between U5 and the game, probably when Gabrielle turned herself into Gabriel, it's true that One when she think about gabriel (mostly in Dod3 story side) view him as different individual and not merely a transformation of gabriella (at least that's the feeling it give me) to some extent we can imagine that such extreme change as the one gabriella undergo can break the pact.

or the pact between One and gabriella is somehow different from any other pact and the merging of their souls don't abide to the same rules

lastly Gabriel is an angel (half-angel at least) it's hard to tell weither or not putting down an angel is similar to killing him. Who know, perhaps an angel can be summoned endlessly, after a cooldown time ? :confused: well i don't think it''s something as that absurd

once again i quote Rekka, the U5 ending is very confusing and it might just be a rush work and we shouldn't put to much thought in it...

If Grabiella returns to her true self at the ending of the manga... Does that mean she becomes a monster again later?


Yes definitely, as gabriella turn herself into an angel, becoming gabriel between the event of the game prequel DLC and the the game chapter 0.
as to why gabriella resumed her angelization, little information about this, you can read my topic on "gabriella to gabriel" there's some speculation on this.

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Re: Discussions About the Manga Series "Utahime Five"

Postby Aicard » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:29 pm

Regarding the end of U5 and it's implications with the story side book (branch E) i talked with someone who managed an explanation to smooth up the apparent conflict between these two, i think the explanation i a bit too far-fetched, nonetheless it's the best i ever heard till now so i bring it to you.

So spoiler en U5 and some on the end of branch E.

[+] Click to show.
In U5 F!One make a pact while in branch E zero also make a pact said to be the very first in Dod universe, which M!One confirm, how can that be possible.
Well according to my friend in U5 while One is making a pact, M!One don't existe yet, Zero is probably Uncouncious and even if Michael witness the pact he may not speak about it to Zero. Therefore in branch E neither Zero nor M!One know about the pact and therefore they could both assume that zero created the very first pact.

following that idea my contact think that therefore the main difference between Dod3 branch A and E is that while pact magic exist in both timeline, M!One only witness it in branch E when Zero use it and for that reason it's only in Branch E that M!One can research the pact/seal magic and widespread it.

As far as i'm concerned, i doubt the wirtter thought that hard to link the stories while they could have found something way more simple; and either there is some information we lack or can''t discern yet or it's a plain contradiction between the manga and the book. In any cases it's by far the best explanation i've heard till now.


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